Puring new driveway. Is wire mesh needed?

edcantu9 · Jul 10, 2014

Here is a picture of a drive way I need redone. Included are measurements and yards of concrete needed. I was quoted $4,500. 2" base (is this enough? should I ask for more?), 4" slab, hand made joints, but no wire mesh included. He stated that since it's just a residential driveway it is not needed, that if I was driving heavy tucks through there daily then yes.

Opinion on this?

Also he wants $1,000 extra if wire mesh is wanted. Does it seem like a lot? Does it it involve extensively more work for him?

I live in south eastern Iowa.

Really looking forward to all your thoughts on this!

SEV22XS

Yes it is needed especially if you live in an area with frost it helps to make the slab all one piece and stop it from cracking and shifting.

7th Kahuna

I don't know about Iowa, but in my experience here, it has generally been optional. As I understand it, it really depends on the mix used, the traffic and the existing soil conditions. Where I grew up, steel was disallowed within the city's front easement (generally the first 10 feet).

A**holes Garage

Where in SE Iowa? I know a few small concrete contractors in Ft. Madison

Falcon67 · Jul 10, 2014 #5 Around here it's 3/8 rebar and no mesh.

Around here it's 3/8 rebar and no mesh.

ACDNate

Generally you don't see remesh in residential driveways. That being said it wouldn't hurt to have it.

His asking price of $1000 extra is a bit ridiculous and tells me he doesn't want to do it.

If my math is right you're looking at probably 2- 5'x150' rolls of remesh. Around here you're looking at $100 +/- a roll from Lowes/HD, less from some places. You'll also need chairs and wire to tie them together, figure another $75 there. To roll it out, set it on chairs and tie it would take a couple guys an hour or so.

$500ish extra would be reasonable.

ACDNate

Falcon67 said:
Around here it's 3/8 rebar and no mesh.

How are you integrating the rebar into the driveway? Like a small footer on the edge or gridding it somehow?

Beemer533

2" base? Wow, I do more than that for a patio around here!

2" sounds really thin, but I guess it depends on what you already have down, and what shape it's in..

kenfain

Definitely worth doing, though the thousand bucks is too much by far. I agree, that price means he doesn't want to do it. I wouldn't consider concrete without some type of steel in it. You only get one shot at this. At any rate, it's a perfect place for a little overkill, even if it's not essential. What's the worst that can happen? Concrete can't be too perfect, can it? I say definitely, do it. If he doesn't want to give you what you want, go with someone else.

ACDNate

That or tell him you won't pay $1000, but will do it yourself. Make him leave you time to roll it out and get it set. You and a buddy could easily do it. Nothing difficult about it.

Hinez Wengler

Some use fibercrete instead of wire. I prefer wire. Definitly use rebars on the sides and entrance from the street. #5

Jd34

If you use wire, make sure they do it properly by pulling it up into the concrete when being poured. All to often the wire just lays on the ground with the concrete on top and it doesn't do any good.

I personally choose not to use the wire and had fiber added to my driveway and to my slab for my detached.. I had lots of concrete poured.

edcantu9

We ended up going with another guy who said he would do wire mesh and fibermesh for a total of $4650. How thick of a rock base should I ask for?

tlmartin84

The majority of rural roads are 6" of base and 3" of asphalt. My point with that is base is the most important thing when it comes to settlement.

With or without wire it will crack, that's the nature of the beast. The wire just helps it to keep from spreading. It has been my experience that once cracked if it is not sealed, the wire will rot and you end up with nothing.

Also worth noting is that all major highway systems are 12" thick and NO reinforcement at all.

I guess out of all of that my point is make sure the base is well compacted! Do the wire if it helps you sleep better at night.

Leaflessshadetree

edcantu9 said:
We ended up going with another guy who said he would do wire mesh and fibermesh for a total of $4650. How thick of a rock base should I ask for?

It probably depends on the location and subsurface. I've done a couple driveways where there had been a long existing driveway. One was gravel the other asphalt. The gravel one I removed what I needed to (about 4 inches) and didn't add any back. The asphalt one I did 6" base (3 layers, compacted) where the asphalt had sunk/failed. I then did a 2" compacted base over the entire area. Both have been fine.
I also did wire mesh and fibermesh (wire for mediating large cracks, fiber for small ones). The wire mesh and fiber combined added less than 10% to the materials. Extra labor was minimal.

2Big2Ride

ACDNate said:
How are you integrating the rebar into the driveway? Like a small footer on the edge or gridding it somehow?

It is in a grid within the flat work here. Think our drive was on 16" centers and on chairs before the pour.

RV77 · Jul 11, 2014

I had my drive poured (45 yds) two years ago and I went w/ 4" and mesh.DO NOT get the rolled up mesh( unless someone flattens it beforehand ) as it will poke out the top of concrete while they are trying to finish it.Just make it easy and get the flat mesh.

The mesh wire I used was like 3/16" with 5" square sections.

I would suggest going thicker concrete/mesh and getting another bid.

Gerald O · Jul 11, 2014

It really depends on your ground conditions.

I had a new driveway put in last year, about 21 yards 4" thick. No rebar, no mesh, no fiber, nothing. No base needed. Still looks perfect and no signs of cracking or movement.

The natural base after scraping off the topsoil was all dry hardpan gravelly clay. Had a tough time just scraping it level with the loader. You can't hardly drive a spike into this ground.

A_Pmech

The mesh you're talking about is not for concrete reinforcement, it's for keeping chickens and hogs in. Yes, lots of "concrete contractors" use it, but it provides so little steel fraction the only thing it might do is hold the concrete together when it rubblizes.

Proper base preparation and proper reinforcement, if required, will go a long way to producing a solid end product. That means no Sooee Screen, chicken wire, or other roll products.

aar0s

We sell 8x16 sheets of mesh where I work, I'd use that before the rolls. Don't skimp on the prep and use wire.

strnge · Jul 11, 2014 #21 Rebar!!!

Rebar!!!

AndyA

strnge said:
Rebar!!!

+1

3/8" rebar grid on 24" center would be my absolute minimum. 3/8" on 16" is standard. We have expansive clay here.

ozyborn

No mesh no pour. I used a 12" crushed rock base compacted, then a 5" slab with the mesh. No fly ash in the mix 4000psi and a sealer on top. Kept it wet for a couple weeks.

I would have used rebar but the only stuff I could find was the rusted crap at Menards. The mesh I got new and painted before it got rusted over

Falcon67

ACDNate said:
How are you integrating the rebar into the driveway? Like a small footer on the edge or gridding it somehow?

Mostly they just lay it in like a slab. Not much difference in a drive way and a slab on grade from what I see.

G-force

I'm in the process of getting something similar done in my pole barn. I have about 1180 sq ft total. 4" thick, rebar 36" on center, fiber mesh in the mix. I also had them install a floor drain in the center stall and plum it out under the slab. Total for everything including gravel and all grading, pouring and finishing is close to $4800. They will have to wheel barrow it in about 30 ft from the truck.

We also happen to live a ways out of the city up a very steep and windy road somewhat difficult to access.

Being in a 25 year old barn, all the extra reinforcment is probably not necessary, especially since all of our ground is solid clay, but it's worth peace of mind to take the extra steps IMO. Just make sure the person you hire knows there stuff.

volleyball

The more wet freezing weather, the more gravel base you want. What about going for a higher PSI mix? It is more work for the contractor to lay but will give a more impervious slab.
For the contractors, did you go see jobs they did 5 or more years ago? This will tell you how permanent a job they will do.

Mxrcr

I live in Des Moines and work with concrete daily, both residential and municipal. I agree that wire mesh is not the best answer(especially the rolls). I would suggest 3/8" rebar on 3' centers. If you want to go closer that's fine, but steel prices are not getting any lower. 1/2" while common is actually a little thick for a 4" slab. Fiber will add strength to the mix, but the rebar will keep the slab together. I have poured with all combinations of bar and fiber. I like fiber, for an exterior slab, but the finishing is a little more difficult. After cured, you will have to deal with small fibers for 6 months or so when sweeping,etc until they wear off the surface. Fiber will help with micro cracks, but will not keep the slab together at the control joints. A combination of fiber or higher strength concrete and rebar will give great results. Fly ash which is added to most c-4 mixes is a water reducer which will strengthen the mix. One thing to remember with the rebar is it will need to be placed with the pour if the contractor plans on backing the trucks in the drive. A good way to do this is to pre build mats and place them as the trucks pull ahead. As far as the base goes, firm undisturbed soil is the best in most cases. With large amounts of base materials comes the risk of water retention and or flow, which can cause problems during freeze thaw conditions or heavy run off. I would try to cut grade as close as possible and add as little fill as possible. However do not let the contractor fill any over dug spots with excavated dirt! Just remember there are many different ways to lay concrete, all have their pro's and con's.

Krodad

I'm in central Iowa, and the only time we use wire mesh (6x6) is in thin slabs or tilt faces. On an exterior slab I would agree that you should have a 4" base as minimum, #4 bar at either 24 or 36 spacing, and make sure you have a goied air entrainment mix. If you really want to feel great about things, add about 10lbs/yd Helix. That stuff is INCREDIBLE!

Jd34

Mxrcr said:
I live in Des Moines and work with concrete daily, both residential and municipal. I agree that wire mesh is not the best answer(especially the rolls). I would suggest 3/8" rebar on 3' centers. If you want to go closer that's fine, but steel prices are not getting any lower. 1/2" while common is actually a little thick for a 4" slab. Fiber will add strength to the mix, but the rebar will keep the slab together. I have poured with all combinations of bar and fiber. I like fiber, for an exterior slab, but the finishing is a little more difficult. After cured, you will have to deal with small fibers for 6 months or so when sweeping,etc until they wear off the surface. Fiber will help with micro cracks, but will not keep the slab together at the control joints. A combination of fiber or higher strength concrete and rebar will give great results. Fly ash which is added to most c-4 mixes is a water reducer which will strengthen the mix. One thing to remember with the rebar is it will need to be placed with the pour if the contractor plans on backing the trucks in the drive. A good way to do this is to pre build mats and place them as the trucks pull ahead. As far as the base goes, firm undisturbed soil is the best in most cases. With large amounts of base materials comes the risk of water retention and or flow, which can cause problems during freeze thaw conditions or heavy run off. I would try to cut grade as close as possible and add as little fill as possible. However do not let the contractor fill any over dug spots with excavated dirt! Just remember there are many different ways to lay concrete, all have their pro's and con's.

Great post!

ACDNate

Krodad said:
I'm in central Iowa, and the only time we use wire mesh (6x6) is in thin slabs or tilt faces. On an exterior slab I would agree that you should have a 4" base as minimum, #4 bar at either 24 or 36 spacing, and make sure you have a goied air entrainment mix. If you really want to feel great about things, add about 10lbs/yd Helix. That stuff is INCREDIBLE!

That Helix looks interesting. I've not heard of it being offered by any of the vendors in this area.

edcantu9

So we ended up going with a guy who bid $4,600 with good references and saw some of his work. He will do the fiber mesh and wire mesh included in price.

Are there any things I should be on the look out for? Like cardinal sins etc that I should be on the look out for?

Lucky923

I hauled rebar for a living I would go with #4 (1/2") rebar on inch & a half concrete dobies that puts your bar close to center of your slab 12" - 16" on center and make sure you hold bar 2" - 3" from end of forms.
You'll be happy you did.

atty5420

No matter which way you go on reinforcing, just keep it wet after the pour. Out here in Az., I was stuck with curing compound on top. Not my first choice, but I was on a mountaintop with limited water. I also did not let the contractor knock the forms down until a week later. The side of the slab is particularly susceptible to rapid drying if there is no form in place to keep it covered.

For the first few days to a week.....wet is your friend.

Mxrcr

What to look out for / cardinal sins : to many to list! Here are a few.
1. Adding to much water on sight = weakens mix
2. Overworking = loss of air entrainment
3. Using water to improve workability = causes weak surface which leads to spalding
4. Pouring on a 95 degree day with a 30 mph wind = without a perfect crew it's a train wreck.
5. Etc,etc.
A good idea might be to watch the crew pour another job. If they are good, it's easy to tell. Pouring concrete well is akin to the male version of ballet.

Puring new driveway. Is wire mesh needed?

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